My friend Jeff Alvord sent me this link to a Michael Pollan talk called “Deep Agriculture” on the blog The Long Now. Jeff Alvord is a key employee working for Pam and Pierre Omidyar, who are major supporters of the “The Long Now,” a long-term, thinking blog.
It is absolutely true that agriculture is tied closely to oil. As Pollan says, we are eating cheap oil.
The opening of this article:
Farming has become an occupation and cultural force of the past. Michael Pollan’s talk promoted the premise — and hope — that farming can become an occupation and force of the future. In the past century American farmers were given the assignment to produce lots of calories cheaply, and they did. They became the most productive humans on earth. A single farmer in Iowa could feed 150 of his neighbors. That is a true modern miracle. “American farmers are incredibly inventive, innovative, and accomplished. They can do whatever we ask them, we just need to give them a new set of requirements.”
Here is a very interesting video that talks about the incredible changes that have taken place in American in only one generation.
It’s called “The Coming Collapse of the Middle Class: Higher Risks, Lower Rewards, and a Shrinking Safety Net,” and it’s a talk by distinguished law scholar Elizabeth Warren, who teaches contract law, bankruptcy, and commercial law at Harvard Law School.
She is an outspoken critic of America’s credit economy, which she has linked to the continuing rise in bankruptcy among the middle-class.
Her talk covers much more than that, though. [Editor Leslie’s note: I just sat and watched that entire one-hour video, practically without blinking. I didn’t have time to, but it is fascinating and I watched it all the way to the end. I highly recommend it.]
Some of her points: In the 1970s, a married couple with two kids had one parent in the workforce and saved 11 percent of their income. To get into the middle class, their kids needed to get a high school diploma and to be willing to work hard. That 12 years of education that their children needed, to get into the middle class, was free.
Warren says that the most important thing that happened in the first two-thirds of the 20th century was that women entered the work force.
In the 2000’s, a similar married couple with two kids must have two people in the work force – because, she says using numbers adjusted for inflation, median mortgage payments in 2005 are 76 percent higher than they were in 1970. Health insurance – in a healthy family with employee-sponsored health insurance – costs the family 74 percent more. Childcare costs have increased 100 percent, and as compared to the 1970s family a 2000s family has the expense of a second car because of that second person in the workforce, and because of that second income their tax rate is up by 25 percent.
In comparable dollars, the 2005 family is actually spending much less on clothes, food, appliances and cars than the 1970s family did; it’s the non-flexible, big ticket and important expenses that have increased so dramatically and that require that second income.
So a comparable married couple with two kids in 2005 has no savings (compared to the 1970s couple, who saved 11 percent of their earnings), and 15 percent of their income is in credit card debt as they try to keep up.
To launch their kids into the middle class requires 16 years of schooling, and the 2005 family has to pay for the first two years (preschool) and the last four years (college) themselves.
She also discusses how, compared to the 1970s, hospitals now send people home “quicker and sicker” (their phrase, she says) in order to control costs, and the family is shown how to and expected to care for, say, a post-surgery patient themselves. Which generally requires someone taking time off work.
And there is so much more on that video. It is a real eye-opener.
So today’s middle class is under terrific debt pressure. I think the effect is called a lower marginal propensity to consume. They get too many bills!
How is this related to the economy in general?
Gail Tverberg writes that a multiplicity of debt rests on a small base personal income. She writes: “It looks to me as though we are due for a debt unwind, and with it a rapid decline in the U.S. standard of living. Exactly what form it will take, and what the timing will be (for example, sudden one month from now or sudden three years from now, or gradual over a longer period), isn’t certain. I would expect that many (or most) other economies in the world will be dragged along in this debt unwind and will experience a decline in their standards of living.”
If Elizabeth Warren and Gail Tverberg are right, then it appears that an external shock to personal income would cause a ripple effect throughout the economy. Could this latest shock have been caused by the demand of a growing population pushing up against a finite resource, such as oil?
If so, we are facing an economic future of highs and lows where the lows become increasingly deeper and longer. We cannot afford to wait; we need to pay attention to the basics – food and energy!
We need to plan for the worse and hope for the best. We must utilize every advantage available to us as we transition away from imported energy.
It is not about us anymore – now it is about future generations.
We’ve been hearing that the American consumer is under pressure and that our economic system is a house of cards. Will Peak Oil come to be the straw that broke the camels back? Because of the resources we have available to us, I think that we in Hawai‘i have a very good future if we focus our attention on future generations.
There is a reason I am talking about all this right now. Check back here on Monday and I’ll tell you about Part 2.
I was copied in on this email yesterday, after having been confirmed by the County Council to a seat on its Environmental Management Commission, pending full Council confirmation in two weeks.
Sharron Henry County of Hawai`i,Department of Environmental Management
Mr. Ha’s nomination for District 4 Commission member replacing Arnold was unanimously approved at the Env. Mgmt. Council Committee today. He was also advised that he did not need to appear for full council approval which should be in 2 weeks.
Hopefully Mr. Ha will be attending our next meeting in Hilo on May 27th where we can all welcome him.
I was asked to serve on this Commission several months ago and my reply was, “Anyway that I can help Mayor Kenoi, I want to do it.”
The confirmation process was very friendly. I know most of the Council folks and we all have the same basic goals for our people. We all live on the Big Island out here in the middle of the Pacific and want to do the best for our kids and future generations.
When Nani Rothfus, Nutritionist at Hilo’s Native Hawaiian Health Care Organization Hui Malama Ola Na ‘Oiwi, set up her booth at the recent E Malama ‘Aina sustainability festival, she brought dirt, seeds and egg cartons so kids could participate in a hands-on activity.
Why plant seeds?
Along with Edna Baldado, Rothfus coordinates Mai Ka Mala‘ai, (“From The Garden”), a diabetes education program funded through the Native Hawaiian Health Department of the John A. Burns School of Medicine.
It’s a 10-week educational program that teaches participants how to manage their diabetes.
“The really neat thing about the program is that we deliver a 4 x 4 box to each of our clients,” she says. “Richard has been so generous in providing the seedlings. We fill the boxes with soil and have a couple volunteer gardeners who teach them how to plant the seeds.”
They take home the cartons and tend their seeds over the course of the workshop, and hopefully beyond. “The idea is for them to get some physical activity,” she says, “and also to eat from the garden and to share from the garden. It’s also something for them to be able to bond with each other over. When they first come into the program, they may not say a word to each other. Once they have their garden and I ask, ‘How is your garden growing?’ everybody talks!’”
She says that Mai Ka Mala‘ai also teaches what’s taught in other diabetes education classes. “What diabetes is, medications, how to monitor your blood sugar, healthy recipes, how much to eat,” she lists. “But there’s a component of teaching traditional values, too,” she says.
She describes the five cultural values they incorporate into the program:
Malama – Taking care of someone; (“And it’s part of our name.”)
Aloha – Making sure when people come and when they leave we speak to them, acknowledge them
Kuleana – Making sure they understand that even though they come to us and we give them skills, they have to take care of themselves
Ho‘ihi – Respecting one another; when somebody shares something it’s important for all of us to listen and learn from it
Ho‘omanawanui – Being patient with one another; all are at different levels of their conditions.
The class of 16 students meets every Thursday night at Hui Malama Ola Na ‘Oiwi’s Railroad Avenue office for 10 weeks. There are three such classes a year.
Rothfus says they encourage the person with diabetes to bring along family members to learn and support the person with diabetes.
And she says the workshops are very popular. When they started offered them in 2006, she says it was a lot of work finding people to enroll. “Now most of them don’t want to leave the class when it ends. They’ve got tremendous support from the class. They tell other people they know and we have people lining up.”
The current class just got their box and seedlings last week. Now, with the storm that’s flooded East Hawai‘i, she says, “their gardens are just floating.”
But presumably they will be patient, ho‘omanawanui, and will malama, take care of, their seedlings, because it’s their kuleana, their responsibility. And Mai Ka Mala‘ai will help them along the way.
“The main criteria was that they used mostly Big Island products,” she says. “Of course we don’t grow everything here, like wheat for the bread, but we wanted them to use at least 70 percent Big Island-grown foods. And #2 was that they used “green” ware – napkins, serving plates, bowls, cups, etc.”
It was the point of the whole festival – that people saw that it is possible (and delicious, in this case) to buy local and act sustainable; and to provide examples.
Some of the foodsellers at the festival:
The Boys and Girls Club – teriyaki and beef sandwiches
Michael’s Hawaiian food from Pahoa
Naung Mai – Thai food
Crivello’s – Portuguese Bean Soup and malasadas
Filipino food
Hilo Bay Fudge, with popsicles, fudge and dipped pretzels
Hawai‘i Island Goat Cheese farm
The University Scuba Divers Fish Club – brownies, banana brad and cookies
Big Island Tacos
Ai Opena espresso coffee truck (say the name of that business out loud)
The E Malama ‘Aina organizers’ group also sold bottles of donated Kona Deep water.
“Everyone that I have heard from was very complimentary about the food,” says Sonia. She’s already contacted some food vendors and asked them to “save the date” of the second annual E Malama ‘Aina festival, which will be on November 7, 2009. Any food vendors who’d like to talk with her about participating can email her at cubanwahine@hawaii.rr.com.
“I’ve heard from several that they plan to be there,” she says. “It was fun and I’m looking forward to doing it again. All my volunteers have already asked if we are doing it again.”
And what did she eat at the festival that day, surrounded by so much good, healthy, local and sustainable food?
“I hate to admit it,” she says, sounding a little guilty about singling out one vendor, “but I had to have Portuguese Bean Soup, because Loretta Crivello kept after me. I had planned to eat a little bit from here and a little bit from there, but then I got so busy.
“It was gooood,” she says. “She also gave me a malasada that morning for breakfast.”
It’s not often you run across someone who is, as Richard describes Brudda Skibs, “completely selfless.”
Richard told me that when they conceived of the idea of the E Malama ‘Aina sustainability festival, Brudda Skibs was the first person he thought of. He’s glad Skibs was a part of the festival.
Richard described Brudda Skibs to me by saying he is known for organizing people in the community – mostly young people – to malama the ‘aina. To take care of the land.
“His reputation is spreading,” Richard said, “and other islands are trying to copy his template.”
That’s Skibs kneeling in the center, wearing the black long-sleeved t-shirt.
It’s hard for some people to wrap their heads around what Skibs (real name: Keith Nehls) does. Every Monday he and his volunteer crew clean up the park at Hakalau. Every Wednesday, they work at Honoli‘i Park. Every Friday, they’re at Honomu.
“We do it free,” he says. “With our heart.”
Watch this video, and you’ll understand about his heart. It’s an important speech and I wish every kid in Hawai‘i would watch it.
And read this article about their reclamation of Honoli‘i Park. Here’s an excerpt:
Honoli’i is one of the best surf spots on the Hilo side, hands down, and for years the surrounding park area was overgrown, full of rubbish, and unattended.
No More.
In November 2003 Keith “Skibs” Nehls and 150 other people started a movement that dwindled down to maybe 5 people within five months. His undying spirit carried him through.
Never Give Up echoed in his ears, words that his Grandfather taught him.
Uncle Skibs gives plenty credit to the teachings of his Grandfather, which instilled in him a strong faith in Akua(God) and a dedication to taking care of the aina(land)….
Dramatic Changes have taken place at Honoli’i, the aina glows from the loving touch of its caretakers.
In the beginning, everybody thought that the land was county land, and no one asked; they just started cleaning it.
Turns out it was Kamehameha School lands, and they were thinking of selling it because they saw no way they were going to be able to take care of it.
When they saw what was going on, they approached Uncle Skibs and offered him a lease on the land, 1 acre, for a dollar a year!
See what a little faith does!
Just look at what they’ve accomplished at Honoli‘i. This video shows the same areas in 2003, 2004, 2005 and 2006, and my jaw fell open to see the land go from abandoned to absolutely beautiful. I had to replay it a couple times to see it again.
At Honomu, they are working on cleaning up the old sugar mill. “It’s privately owned by a doctor,” says Skibs. “He got in touch with us and said he was looking for someone to come take care of this place. He said he wants to give back. He wants to hand it over to an entity” where part of the building can be a community center and part of the land down near the ocean can be a park. They’re clearing the top part of the property right now. “We’re showing him we’re real,” he says.
They’re real. Skibs and his crew have been doing this for five years now, and he’s formed a non-profit organization, Basic Image, which last year brought in $46,000 in cash – $40,000 of that from the Hawaii Tourism Authority – and almost $300,000 in in-kind donations.
Kids come help on the weekends, he says, from Hilo High, Kamehameha Schools, Ha‘aheo School, Punana Leo and others. “We give them a tour, talk to them,” he says. “We tell them we built this park and put on events, and you gotta bring your parents, teach others, because when we die, you’ve gotta take over. This is for everybody. It’s not yours. You’re not going to get one special park; you’re doing it to teach our culture. You’re giving back.”
Every year he puts on surf contests at Honoli‘i and Pohoiki. “It’s for the kids, but parents or guardians have to be there,” he says. “Schools help us. They tell the kids: If you come and help us, we’ll put on this free contest because you’ve giving back. The parents come so they know what’s going on.”
Want to help? He says he’s always there around 9 or 9:30 in the morning. Or email him at skibs7@mac.com.
“Everyone has one talent that’s their gift,” he says. “You don’t have to come down to clean up. You give whatever. What you like do? What are you good at? I like you come and do what you like do.”
“We’re all here to do one job. We’re not looking at money or fame; we’re looking at changing this place to the way it used to be.”
Richard says that what Brudda Skibs is doing is “a manifestation of ‘aloha spirit.'”
“This is what is going to keep us together as a society when push comes to shove,” he says. “We need to feel a part of our community, make more friends and stay close to our family.”
“What we’re doing is real,” says Skibs. “We could change this island. We’re doing it already. That’s our job right now – the future of our children.”
Every Wednesday here at the blog we are featuring someone who was at the E Malama ‘Aina sustainability festival, and this week we’re happy to tell you about the Hawai‘i Island Master Gardeners Association (HIMGA).
The volunteer group’s mission statement: To extend to the gardening public research-based information about home horticulture and pest management.
“The main point of the Master Gardeners is to work on the phone and in the office at CTAHR,” says HIGMA president Rhea Hubbard. “We speak with the public when they call in and say, ‘What’s this little bug that lives on my corn?; what’s this rust on my plumeria?’ We also give back to the community, work in the schools, run programs at the senior center.”
At the festival, they educated people on how to recognize fruit flies and keep them out of their gardens, including bringing their lures and bait and selling their handmade traps (which are made from 2-liter soda bottles). They also gave away basil and tomato plants, and Master Gardener Janice Crowl was there with her book.
There are 50 or 60 Master Gardeners in HIGMA, who come from as far away as Pa‘auilo and South Point to attend meetings and work at the CTAHR office.
At CTAHR they answer phone calls (call 981-5199 on Tuesday and Friday between 9 a.m. and 12 noon), respond to emails (himga@hawaii.edu – you can attach a photo of your plant or pest!) and look at specimens that people bring in to the office. They are located at the Waiakea Experimental Station at 920 Stainback Highway, one mile past the zoo on N. Kulani Road.
If they cannot readily identify the plant’s problem, they can have it (and also soil) analyzed. “Nothing is more than $10,” says Hubbard.
“Our big thrust is sustainability,” she says. “I was amazed to read in the paper last week that 90 percent of our food here is still imported.”
“We want to educate people that you can do it: You can grow food on your patio. You can grow your lettuce; you can grow your tomatoes. Even if you don’t have soil, you can do raised beds. Our overall goal is to help educate the public.”
The next Master Gardener class is in the fall; call the HIGMA office if you’d like to learn more.
Here’s a little about the Pacific Century Fellows:
The objective of the Pacific Century Fellows Program is to develop leaders with a greater awareness and sensitivity to the people and institutions of Hawaii. Based on the White House Fellows Program, the Pacific Century Fellows Program will bring together annually up to 25 of Hawaii’s most promising individuals from all walks of life, fields and professions. They’ll gain a broader view of civic duty through direct contact with senior community, social and government leaders. The program encourages the development of long-term relationships between leaders young and old, united in their commitment to find creative solutions to the challenges facing the state.
The people in this program are our future leaders; our best and brightest. What message did I want to get across? I decided to talk about the most important issue facing our state: that Hawai‘i imports 90 percent of its food. How will we make sure we can feed ourselves?
I told them that this is not rocket science. “If the farmers make money, farmers will farm.”
Modeled after the White House Fellows Program and founded by Mayor Mufi Hannemann, the Fellows are chosen on the basis of a written application and personal interview conducted by a blue-ribbon panel of judges. Individuals who are chosen have shown strong intellectual and leadership abilities in the early and mid-stages of their careers, and who have the potential to make significant contributions to the community in the future.
The Pacific Century Fellows Program will provide participants with direct contact with senior community, social, and government leaders. A goal of the program is to nurture relationships among individuals who are committed to exploring creative and constructive solutions to far-reaching challenges facing the state and nation.
I told them that we at Hamakua Springs Country Farms plan at least five years out for a future that we need to be relevant within. And that the physical layout they were seeing was planned five years ago, and is not really where we are now.
What is that future that we must be relevant within? I told them that this simple formula makes sense for us and applies to everyone in Hawai‘i: Net energy return on energy invested, minus the energy used for food production, gives us our life style.
Say it takes one barrel of oil to extract 15 barrels of oil, and it takes two barrels of oil to produce food for a certain number of people. Then our group would have 13 barrels of oil to do everything else – like run lights, pump water, drive to Kona, go fishing, etc. We would be living better than kings in years past.
But it is getting more and more difficult to extract oil. Say, one barrel now can only extract 10 barrels, and it still takes two barrels to grow our food. Now we have only eight barrels instead of 13 to do everything else. This is not rocket science either. It is a simple formula to manipulate.
We need to figure out how we can get the best net energy return on energy invested. And we need to figure out how to lessen our dependence on oil to produce our food.
And other things flow from the principles above:
If done correctly, the Thirty Meter Telescope is a good thing. It can help educate our keiki and help future generations cope.
I am very supportive of geothermal energy use. This is the best source of renewable energy we have here in Hawai‘i. It is a great gift.
Plug it into our formula above and we end up with a better lifestyle. In fact we have so many sources of renewable energy, we can have a relatively better lifestyle than the U.S. mainland.
The reason we pushed the alternate energy loan program through the last legislature is because “if the farmer makes money, the farmer will farm.”
It’s why we support an extra incentive for farmers to develop alternative energy projects.
It’s also why we support a discount for produce transported on Young Brothers’ barges.
We must not lose our focus. We need closer communities – we need to make more friends and we need to be closer to our families. We need to help each other as we face tougher times ahead.
Hawaiians knew how to do this. It is called the Aloha Spirit. And it works best when everyone practices it.
I think President Elect Obama, who grew up here in Hawai‘i, carries the influence of the Aloha Spirit with him, and that is what is making this country hopeful.
Did you know that the County of Hawai‘i’s Department of Water Supply (DWS) uses more electricity than anyone else on the island? It’s expensive to move water around to where it’s needed. The Department’s electricity bill for last year alone was $20 million.
So it’s especially fitting that the DWS participated at the recent E Malama ‘Aina sustainability festival.
It was Board Chairman Tommy Goya of the county’s Board of Water Supply (the department’s policy-making entity) who wanted to be sure they were at the festival, according to DWS Public Information and Education Officer Kanani Aton.
(Richard says Tommy Goya’s “behind the scenes” advice, while Richard was helping to coordinate the festival, was invaluable, too.
“I would call Tommy and ask: ‘What you think, Tommy?’ I had never been involved in that kind of event before,” says Richard. “And he would say, ‘Meet me at Starbucks.’ He would give alternative
scenarios, how things were done before and what might be appropriate now. This helped a lot.”)
“Tommy wanted to do it big,” says Kanani. “He really wanted to make an impact at this sustainability festival because of the message the festival was sending. And because the need for water is a part of sustainability, and to help attitudes toward water deepen and become more appreciative.”
Indeed, the DWS made a splash with their huge booth, where their displays were powered by the solar power guys also exhibiting at the festival.
The DWS folks even brought their own water buffalo. “That’s our big, potable water tank,” says Kanani (though don’t you wish it had been a real water buffalo?) “We brought our water and served it right there at the festival.”
Another highlight – one of their workers had taken a donated fish tank, and working with the building maintenance crew he created a model “water cycle and water system.”
“They created a cover for the tank, and pumped water up from below the rocks, up into the sky so to speak,” Kanani explains. “By putting dry ice in the top to look like clouds, it was raining over the land, the rocks. Then, after he created the simple model of a water cycle, he overlaid an example of a water system, how you have this pump that pulls water up from the aquifer and eventually to the house.”
She says that kids loved seeing that. “They love the dry ice making the clouds,” she says. “They understand that when they turn on the faucet, they’re actually calling water to come down the hill. Whenever you turn on a faucet to wash Daddy’s car, you’re actually telling a pump far away to eventually turn on.”
It’s a way to teach children not to take water for granted, or think it is limitless. Other kids’ activities included a ball toss, a fishing pole game. They gave away coloring books, balloon art, pens and stickers.
The DWS displayed its energy management activities, engineering capital improvement projects, water use and development plan.
“We also showed how we’re changing out all the mechanical water meters to be automatic meters that send out electronic signals,” says Kanani.
The DWS has recently adopted as its new motto Ka Wai A Kane, which, she explains, is a Hawaiian chant from the days of antiquity.
“It’s a chant about the waters, the fresh water, of the Hawaiian god Kane,” she says. “All the different manifestations of fresh water, whether it be the cloud banks that gather on the sea, the high ridges, the valleys, the flowing streams, even the water below the Earth.”
“Those ancient words,” she says, “speak about what our water engineers and hydrologists and operations engineers do today – look at the water and how to harness it effectively.”
“Water is our most precious resource,” she says, “and the Department of Water Supply really has its eye on the ball when it comes to water. We need to reach out to each and every person who uses water and create a strong relationship of stewardship.”
When Daniel Krause was on a surf trip to Bali, he only had one towel with him, and though he didn’t wash it for almost three weeks (no laundromat handy) it stayed odorless. “I even used it as a pillow,” he says.
It wasn’t just any old towel – it was one his girlfriend had gotten him that was made of bamboo pulp. Bamboo products are sometimes compared to silk and cashmere, he says, or the softest of all cottons. Krause and his girlfriend Janie Vea, both of Hilo, were so impressed with the bamboo products they are now selling them under the brand name “Eco-Conscious.”
They set up a booth at the E Malama ‘Aina festival recently, and also appeared at a craft fair. Since then they have gotten lots of repeat customers.
“We thought the number one seller would be t-shirts,” says Daniel, “but a lot of people are buying the towels.”
Antibacterial/ Antimicrobial. Bamboo possesses a property called “Kun,” a natural antifungal & antibacterial agent that prevents bacteria from cultivating, making the fabric odor-free. According to research done by the Japan Textile Inspection Association, tests on bamboo fiber have shown that these properties described above will remain unaffected even after 50 launderings.
Hypo-Allergenic. With the property of the bamboo kun & its naturally soft and smooth fiber properties that are non-irritating to the skin, it’s ideal for people with skin sensitivities or other allergies and dermatitis.
Thermal Regulating. Due to its wicking qualities, it draws away sweat & moisture away from the skin, keeping you cool in the summer and warm in the winter.
Quick Absorption. The micro–holes on bamboo cloth allows quick absorption & evaporates sweat rapidly. Bamboo fiber is four times more absorbent than cotton.
Breathable. The porous qualities of bamboo fiber account for its breatheabilit,y making it ideal for hot weather or exercise.
Provides UV protection. Bamboo naturally provides added protection against the sun’s harmful UV rays. It blocks 91 percent of UVA & 98 percent of UVB.
100% Biodegradable. Unlike synthetic fibers, which incorporate petroleum additives, bamboo clothing is safe for municipal disposal programs, whether by landfill or incineration.
Some other products claim to be antibacterial and antimicrobial, Daniel explains, but that’s because chemicals are added. “Bamboo holds its natural features,” he says. “It doesn’t take any pesticides or fertilizer to grow it. And it’s really sustainable, because it matures in three to four years, compared to other softwoods that take 20 years to grow.”
He and Janie are selling their products online, for now, at their website. Products include bamboo clothing and bamboo household products. “Bed, bath and clothing,” he characterizes the collection.
“Our main goal? Since the brand is called Eco-Conscious, we want people to listen to their ‘eco-conscience,’” he says. “Our goal is to kind of plant an eco-conscience seed in people, where you walk by a piece of trash on the ground and you think twice about it. Not only toward our products, but to really sustain the island.
“We’re so dependent here,” he says. “We import so many goods. We want this to be a better community and to be a leader for the other islands and the mainland. To show that it can work.
“We can do well in spite of being at such a disadvantage. I find a lot of people are trying to help out.”
Richard is one of the many who experienced the Eco-Conscious products at the recent E Malama ‘Aina sustainability festival. “The bamboo fiber products were so unbelievably soft,” he says. “It was striking. I can see why their sales are up.
